You know, I've thought this for a long time, but I was afraid to speak on it, for fear of sounding insane or impious. This is quite possibly the most fascinating article I've ever read on this app.
While I have never been much curious about the idea of pre-Adamic peoples, I have been for a while curious about the possibility of co-Adamic peoples, because of Cain's wife, and I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that. I'm also a creationist, and the usual answer offered is that Cain's wife was one of his sisters or nieces, which, I can't prove that wasn't the case, but I really struggle to accept that answer. The problem is repeated after the Flood with Noah and his family. I take the global Flood literally, meaning only those 8 were left. The problem resurfaces, just one generation removed by Noah's sons and their wives, but everyone in the subsequent generation would have married a first cousin. And Paul does say in Acts 18 that from one blood God made all nations, so it's uphill to even postulate the idea of co-Adamic peoples.
The standard Creationist response is that the gene pool before the Flood was still pristine enough that sibling marriage wouldn’t have caused the damage it does today. We don’t see a formal prohibition of incest until the Torah is given to Moses. That seems to be a satisfying enough answer for most, but it does leave some unresolved questions about the relationship dynamics involved. There is actually another interesting idea I’ve come across in rabbinical Jewish writings that prior to the Flood every person was actually born with a twin of the opposite sex that was their destined spouse (which isn’t that strange when we consider that Eve was taken out of Adam’s side and was probably his sibling in a purely genetic sense). In later generations this trait apparently disappeared through some sort of genetic degradation (I’m not quite sure, but it might have been a side effect of Cain’s descendants taking up polygamy). Even in Jewish discourse, this is just one school of thought among many (the rabbis debated their theories constantly), but it stood out to me as a pretty unique take.
Interesting. The Mosaic ban on consanguinity coming later, as well as the earlier perfect genome, those arguments I can more or less accept, but there is still the sort of “universal moral law” principle wherein most cultures instinctively know it’s wrong—the normal YEC response doesn’t address that piece. One theory I have toyed with is, did God create a wife for Cain the same way he created Eve from Adam’s own body? That’s a little similar to what you replied with. However, we run into Gen. 3:20, which says Eve was the mother of all living.
There’s a book you might enjoy called “The Gospel According Moses” by Athol Dickson. He actually attended Bible study sessions with some Jewish friends at synagogue and learned about Judaism’s tradition of intentionally wrestling with difficult passages of Scripture and getting to know God better by asking honest questions. These are some excerpts:
“The medieval French rabbi and Bible scholar known as Rashi (an acronym for his full name, Rabbi Shlomo ben Isaac) found many difficulties in the Bible. These included apparent contradictions, apparent flaws in logic, enigmatic stories that occupy pride of place within the text yet have no apparent rhyme or reason, verses that seem out of context, and words, phrases, or entire stories that are repeated for no clear purpose. In Rabbinic Judaism, such difficulties are called koshim. They can be volatile, dangerous stuff. Once they drove me far from God.”
“I became convinced that the Bible was filled with mistakes and half-baked truisms. I reacted to these difficulties by abandoning the faith of my childhood for a time, descending to a life of hedonism and destructive behavior. But although Rashi also found these kinds of difficulties, his response and mine could not have been more different. Rashi confronted his koshim squarely, with an open and inquiring mind. The result was one of the most widely respected commentaries on the Hebrew Scriptures in existence, a body of work on the order of Augustine’s City of God or Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion.”
You know, I've thought this for a long time, but I was afraid to speak on it, for fear of sounding insane or impious. This is quite possibly the most fascinating article I've ever read on this app.
Thank you so much! I was literally just winging it. Figured I might as well go big or go home 😉
Every single thing I write here is just me “winging it”
While I have never been much curious about the idea of pre-Adamic peoples, I have been for a while curious about the possibility of co-Adamic peoples, because of Cain's wife, and I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that. I'm also a creationist, and the usual answer offered is that Cain's wife was one of his sisters or nieces, which, I can't prove that wasn't the case, but I really struggle to accept that answer. The problem is repeated after the Flood with Noah and his family. I take the global Flood literally, meaning only those 8 were left. The problem resurfaces, just one generation removed by Noah's sons and their wives, but everyone in the subsequent generation would have married a first cousin. And Paul does say in Acts 18 that from one blood God made all nations, so it's uphill to even postulate the idea of co-Adamic peoples.
The standard Creationist response is that the gene pool before the Flood was still pristine enough that sibling marriage wouldn’t have caused the damage it does today. We don’t see a formal prohibition of incest until the Torah is given to Moses. That seems to be a satisfying enough answer for most, but it does leave some unresolved questions about the relationship dynamics involved. There is actually another interesting idea I’ve come across in rabbinical Jewish writings that prior to the Flood every person was actually born with a twin of the opposite sex that was their destined spouse (which isn’t that strange when we consider that Eve was taken out of Adam’s side and was probably his sibling in a purely genetic sense). In later generations this trait apparently disappeared through some sort of genetic degradation (I’m not quite sure, but it might have been a side effect of Cain’s descendants taking up polygamy). Even in Jewish discourse, this is just one school of thought among many (the rabbis debated their theories constantly), but it stood out to me as a pretty unique take.
Interesting. The Mosaic ban on consanguinity coming later, as well as the earlier perfect genome, those arguments I can more or less accept, but there is still the sort of “universal moral law” principle wherein most cultures instinctively know it’s wrong—the normal YEC response doesn’t address that piece. One theory I have toyed with is, did God create a wife for Cain the same way he created Eve from Adam’s own body? That’s a little similar to what you replied with. However, we run into Gen. 3:20, which says Eve was the mother of all living.
There’s a book you might enjoy called “The Gospel According Moses” by Athol Dickson. He actually attended Bible study sessions with some Jewish friends at synagogue and learned about Judaism’s tradition of intentionally wrestling with difficult passages of Scripture and getting to know God better by asking honest questions. These are some excerpts:
“The medieval French rabbi and Bible scholar known as Rashi (an acronym for his full name, Rabbi Shlomo ben Isaac) found many difficulties in the Bible. These included apparent contradictions, apparent flaws in logic, enigmatic stories that occupy pride of place within the text yet have no apparent rhyme or reason, verses that seem out of context, and words, phrases, or entire stories that are repeated for no clear purpose. In Rabbinic Judaism, such difficulties are called koshim. They can be volatile, dangerous stuff. Once they drove me far from God.”
“I became convinced that the Bible was filled with mistakes and half-baked truisms. I reacted to these difficulties by abandoning the faith of my childhood for a time, descending to a life of hedonism and destructive behavior. But although Rashi also found these kinds of difficulties, his response and mine could not have been more different. Rashi confronted his koshim squarely, with an open and inquiring mind. The result was one of the most widely respected commentaries on the Hebrew Scriptures in existence, a body of work on the order of Augustine’s City of God or Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion.”
Interesting, thanks for the tip.
Anytime 😊